My fascination lies in the question of "What do we do if he isn't?" Can you imagine the uproar and possible riots from his supporters if it is found that he is NOT eligible to be our president? And then, who would be? Would Hillary Clinton stand back and allow Joe Biden to become the president? She could claim she would have won the democratic nomination if it had been a race between her and Biden. Or would the Republican party claim the whole election was a sham and we need to do it again? What a constitutional crisis this would become! Unfortunately, I see this whole thing as a "lose-lose" situation. Having a president usurp the office and defy the constitution is not good. The result of ousting him could be devastating to our nation. The only "win" scenario would be him proving he is eligible and this becoming a non-issue. But it appears he is unwilling to do this.
Our founding fathers stated that the president must be a natural born citizen in order to protect from conflict of interest or allegiance to another country while leading our nation. Currently, President Obama has refused to produce a vault copy of his birth certificate validating that he truly is a natural born citizen even though his own grandmother claims she was present at his birth in Kenya.
If I understand it correctly, the problem is the Constitution states a president must be a natural born citizen, but there are no directions on what to do if a president is found to be ineligible AFTER he is already in office. Would this be an impeachment issue? I'm hoping you American government experts out there can fill me in on this one. Many lawsuits have been filed asking the courts to require him to prove that he is a natural born citizen of the U.S., but most have been thrown out because the courts say they do not have standing, even though they are voters and taxpayers. It appears that the courts do not want to be involved in deciding this issue.
But an interesting twist has come up recently. There is a new lawsuit that is coming from current and retired members of the military demanding that Obama proves that he is eligible to be their Commander in Chief. If anyone has "standing," I would think it would be a person who would be required to put their life on the line or to take the life of others in order to follow the orders of the president. If anyone needs to have confidence in our president and his right to be president, it is our military, right?
Here are a few links to articles World Net Daily has reported on this issue:
Soldier doubts eligibility, defies president's orders
Major general says president's eligibility needs proof
More military officers demand eligibility proof
U.S. solider gagged on prez's eligibility
Senator: Eligibility is up to the voters
I'm so curious to hear what you all think about this issue. Obama supporters, would it bother you if he was proven ineligible? Would you still want him to serve as president if it was proven he deceived our nation? What about you non-Obama supporters? Why do you think the media isn't covering this? Do you see it as a non-issue or an important one? Anyone else as fascinated by this as me? I have so much to learn about our government and how it works. I'm afraid this lesson might not be so fun to watch unfold.
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15 comments:
Wow, that's interesting. I'm as shocked as you that this isn't covered in main stream media. Unfortunately, I know much less than you about politics and our American government workings. But this is fascinating. I didn't vote for Mr. Obama, but have committed to respecting that the majority did and he is our president. But I do believe that if he is not a born citizen, he should not continue the presidency. If he lied about that, how can we trust him with the major issues? I'm anxious to see what happens. I do know, without question, that our God is bigger than politics and nothing happens without His approval. We have nothing to fear.
Hi Becky,
Like your previous commenter said, I am not too informed about the politics and government issues. I do believe that he should have met all the requirements of a president especially being a born citizen of the U.S. You know, they were talking him all up, and I said to myself, just watch when he takes office. They will find his faults and pick him apart like they do every president. It will be interesting to see how it will all unfold. Thanks for sharing and informing of that. I don't watch much news so I do find things out on here.
Any reasonable person would conclude that President Obama and his allys know the truth about his birth and legal status to be President. They know because if they could produce valid proof that he was eligible and end the controversy they would obviously do so; that they do not produce that proof screams of a cover up.
The general ignorance of the American public regarding the Constitution has long ago created a malaise in that same public. That public is largely so apathetic about the principles upon which this country was founded that they would not consider it a "big deal" since he was elected by the majority. They might say, "This is a democracy; he won the majority of votes and where his birth place was doesn't change the facts of our nation's support for him." That same logic is most probably the reason why the mainstream media does not consider the issue worth their time.
As per what would happen if he was proven inelligible, we would be thrown into a Constitutional crisis of unparalleled magnitude. Regardless of public support, the adversarial nature of Congress would be fanned to life. The over dominance of lawyers in the Congress insures that there would be unending rationalization and every "loophole" imaginable would be trotted out as a solution to allow him to stay in office. The Republican minority would be equally torn between acting upon principles or expediency for the nation. The Supreme Court would inevitably be forced to rule. Clearly, they would be forced to rule him inelligible if they are true to the clear statements of the Constitution. Consequently, it would require him to be removed from office. Assuming that "proof" of his inelligibility also meant proof that he and others knew all along and therefore are guilty of intentionally misleading the public for personal gain, he would most correctly be impeached and tried for "high crimes and misdemeanors". Constitutionally, then, we would be forced to accept Joe Biden as the President. Sad as that would be, it is the Constitutionally correct thing to do under those circumstances.
The real crux of this matter, though, is the fact that this issue is only one of many symptons of our nation's gangrene and potential death. In spite of genuine reason for investigation into the truth of these allegations, our nation's lawmakers will not launch the investigation for political reasons. Similarly, our people are largely not demanding an investgation on the grounds of protecting the founding principles of this nation because they do not feel the strength of commitment to the ideals holding this nation together.
Why is this such a big deal, one might ask? Beliefs have absolutely no power unless they are acted upon. For example, those who profess "belief" in Christ yet who fail let those beliefs and principles guide and control their lives actually have no belief capable of saving them from the deceptions and calamities of human life. Stereotypically, belief of this nature is just some remote comfort to assuage philosophical alliance with God. The same is true of our nation's "belief" in and commitment to our Constitutional principles. Just as it is true in matters of the spirit and our lives in Christ, so is it true that without genuine, powerful belief and commitment to our Constitutional principles we are open to deception and evil of every manner the consequences of which can mean eternal death.
If they are not already, I hope your readers are awakened to the great peril this nation is in if its people do wake up and once again commit themselves to the principles of our Constitution. We can't "trade our soul for a feeling".
Materialism and hedonism are not foundations for the survival of a nation. Rationalizations castrating the power of our founding principles leave us impotent and unable to perpetuate our nation. Whether it is this issue of Obama's eligibility or any number of Constitutional violations rife within the Presidential and Congressional actions of the last 30 days,we have ample evidence of a perilous crisis. I urge all of your readers to speak out, find the courage to stand on the convictions and principles upon which this nation was founded. The alternative is the death of our nation.
Sorry to be so long winded... Grandpa
This was the first I'd ever heard of this. It's very interesting. Especially since the same Constitutional injunction means foreign-born adopted kids can't become president either. But, I researched the other side of the story (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0209/19450.html) and am actually pretty satisfied with their explanation (end of pg. 2).
So Rae, what would be the harm in President Obama signing the waiver to release his original Long Form birth certificate? What possible reason could he have for not doing this? It would instantly end the debate.
A total fraud! I heard/read about this before he became our President! It pisses me off how this is all being handled and I am shocked that people do not know or just do not care! He is our Commander & Chief! Scarey!!! I would say more but I am way to tired! Just wanted to put in at least my two cents! Ha~
I agree with "Grandpa"... is that your daddy Becky? Goooooo Grandpa!! :)
I agree with Granda--if Obama were a natural-born citizen, he'd produce the birth certificate and be done with it. And the media, with their great affection for Obama, are willing to take anything he says at face value and not challenge him.
This upsets me for the same reason all these cabinet members who have been evading their taxes for so many years upsets me. I cannot stand politicians who think they can play by their own set of rules! They intend to enforce the rules on us--and many of these rules are quite burdensome, especially the tax laws--but they don't think they need to obey at all! I do not want a president who holds our Constitution in such low regard that he would violate its tenets in this way.
Wow~ great discussion. Have you all read the article Rae mentioned? I'd like to hear what you think of that. Is this just another conspiracy theory for people who believe in UFO's or is it a legitimate concern? (Thanks Rae for another viewpoint)
I guess I see it as too simple to be lumped into the category of right-wing conspiracy theories. Those conspiracy theories are not provable. This is easily provable.
I guess I'm with Kimberly and Pat. Why not just show the long-form and be done with this? If you have nothing to hide, why allow it to become such a big deal?
I felt like this article was using labeling to distract from the main issue. I take offense to calling people who are concerned about this as part of the "birth-obsessed fringe." It is easy to shut people up by lumping them into the "wacko" group on any issue.
Dawnita~ Grandpa is my Dad. : )
BRiehl~ I agree that "God is bigger than politics and nothing happens without his approval. We have nothing to fear." You are so right on that one. : )
Kim~ Watch out for trying to learn anything from me. I'm still trying to figure it all out myself. : )
My biggest concern is that there are so many people who would prefer to ignore this. Apathy is the enemy here. If everyone who believes that some thing stinks would stand up and be counted I would think we have a mojority in this country. Problem is, the majority refuses to stand up and be counted. Ok. Count me. I think it's extrememly smelly.
Mama Mimi
Hi Becky,
First, let me say that I enjoy your blog. It's such fun to see how you & your children are doing. I'm so glad to have found you & our high school friends on f@cebook.
I did want to comment about this post. I understand that you have concern if there was some fraud committed on the American public, but in this case I can understand why the mainstream press did not pick up this story. The LA Times started an investigation of the allegation, but stopped when they saw the birth certificate: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/obama-birth.html
I also understand that newspapers, TV and radio news all have bias, so I check controversial stories with various sources. I'm a big fan of factcheck.org, a non-profit non-partisan consumer advocate. Their view of this story:
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
Anyhow, I did vote for Obama, but I'm a much bigger patriot than I am a democrat and I don't want to see our country lied to. Based on the evidence that I've seen, I believe President Obama.
Wow. I read the politico.com article and have to say, "didn't convince me". Now to be fair, there are articles written by some "Obama haters" that are really slanted and are just as tough to believe as this one was. But this one hunted and pecked adnauseum on the liberal "Obama lover" side. Labeling and calling names such as "birth obsessed fringe" is always a way to change the subject at hand. I for one am tired of the name calling. I just want truth. Again, what's the problem with producing the hard evidence. A birth certificate. Let's see it. Then this will stop and life will go on.
Oh by the way, just for some information for the author of the article 'witches do exist'.
Sandra,
Maybe you could answer my question then... Why doesn't President Obama release his birth certificate??? I checked out the link you provided to the certificate he has shown. This is NOT a birth certificate. Look at your own: It will say what hospital you were born in, what time, and will be signed by the physician (or if it's a state copy, it will at least list the physician). Do you see anything missing on Obama's? The fact is that Hawaii allows parents to register a birth (thus the form you see) of children born out of the state. So, I'm back to the original question! We know the long form exists in Hawaii. This form will confirm he was born there (hospital/physician), or whether his mother just registered the birth. I'll pay the $20 fee if he'd like & this debate will be over.
Sandra... one more thing I forgot to say: I have no doubt that the certification of live birth that President Obama shows is a legitimate form released by Hawaii (some say it's a forgery-it's not). But check out this link. http://sites.google.com/site/obamabirth/Home/obama-short-form-birth-certificate It shows a Hawaiian long form from 1962 (one year after Obama's birth) - this is what has all the information that will end this "conspiracy".
Ooops! I've been away for a little while. I didn't just step out of the debate and purposefully leave your questions dangling! I didn't like all the name calling and silliness (conspiracy theory, really?!) in the Politico article either. But, I did like that the the governor of HI confirmed the legitimacy of Obama's stance. It's not like he's just saying, "Believe me!" There are other officials who back him up. And, apparently, the law itself backs him up (ref. the article). To answer WHY he might not want his BC out there for everyone to see, well, there is the law. Then, there are many other privacy issues. If his gram is so set on his being born in Kenya, then that makes me think there may be some cultural thing that we don't understand. Also, what if the father listed on his official long-form BC is a matter of privacy. Or, heck, it could be an issue with the doctor who delivered him. So, sure, there is SOMETHING that he doesn't want us to know for SOME reason, but that doesn't mean that the governor is lying and that he really is ineligible for the office.
I've been trying to keep up with this whole issue too Becky. Something is seriously wrong if he can't and won't and hasn't shown his actual birth certificate. And to think that the mainstream media is so blinded by him that they don't bring this to attention. Baffling! My dh is in the military and I find it scary that he has such a 'boss' as this. He's served 10 years and keeps talking about getting out when this term is up. What a waste that would be but I seriously couldn't blame him with having to serve under who he is. I need to keep reminding myself that HE who is in me is GREATER than he who is in the world...tough stuff!
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